Open Questions - Subdomains and Main Domains
I got a great question on my SEO Empire post from Ryan at NetSEO. I figured it was worth addressing in a post rather than leaving a really long comment.
Eli, Can you be so kind and explain why this is:
“Primary domains can pass a penalty to subdomains. Subdomains can’t pass a penalty to a main domain unless the main domain holds a relation to the subdomain (ie. a link).”
Happy to answer Ryan
Anytime I make a statement like that I am usually making a reference to an exemption to the general This-Is-My-Site -> This-Is-Google -> This-Is-The-Value stream of things. Sometimes I’m a bit presumptuous in assuming readers caught the reference. In this instance I’m talking about the exception given to protect free hosts from penalties, particularly those who give their users subdomains such as Hypermart, Xoom, Wordpress.com, Blogger, Tripod etc. This exemption can’t only cover the popular free hosts otherwise no new freehosts would ever stand a chance. As soon as they got a single spammy user their whole site could get banned and poof goes their legit business. Likewise algorithmically it can’t cover all free hosts because then the biggens like Wordpress.com and Typepad would all be penalized. On a foresight this would also include profile based social sites such as Myspace and outbound linking social sites such as Delicious. Anyone remember when Geocities sites used to rank so well. Yet at the same time with a lot of splog platforms out there manual reviews would be a nightmare and unfeasible. So there is a line drawn. That line has to consist of some sort of relationship between the primary domain and the subdomain of a site that’ll evaluate if the “subsite” belongs to the main site or if it’s a separate entity. By way of algorithms that relationship is very tough to determine. In fact it’s damn near impossible to do with 100% accuracy. Unfortunately for them, they have the burden of relying on internal linking relationships between the two which would include the above statement as well as other protective factors that would encompass other exceptions such as nonstatic links (like Furl & Delicious would use).
This area of unsureness gives us SEO peeps room to do things such as create splogs and do subdomain spam. As long as we know what they’re looking for (the antispam teams) we know what not to provide. Most sites that contain ownership of their subdomains link from their mainpage down to the subpages to the subdomains and so on and so forth. So when in doubt do the opposite. It’ll provide less of a chance for a relationship between the maindomain and subdomain to be found and if you’re worried about linkjuice get it from other sources via deeplinks.
Comments (437)
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Well basically all you have to do is create Greyhat sites that look 100% legit. That is, give them a template that matches your topic, fill them with relevant Content and not some Markovized Gibberish.
Eli described how to create unique Content by basically shuffling through and combining various databases. E.g. you have a Database of realtors in Canada and a database of Car Vendors in Canada etc. Then just create mashups of the data sources you have for each city. There you go with unique looking content thats easy to create in minutes. Fire up Xrumer and there you go =D
Hey Eli! Great post
What is your opinion if i would have a “network” of sites (different domains for different markets but all interlinked with like flags of whatever.
Doing hardcore unrelated linkbuilding to those. Do you think that could hurt my mainsite if i get penalized with one of the subdomains? Would it help to remove the geocountry immediatly?
BR Tobias
Eli,
What would you recommend for a site like mine containing Nude-photos section?
Some months ago I have been banned by the Google image bot although the section is disallowed in robots.txt. I really could not understand how I got out. I made some postings in the Google forum and a G.employee said that he will forward my question. Perhaps he had and that is the reason for the change. Still very few images from my site are indexed by the image bot, although I keep your recommendation about the perfectly optimized google image whenever I can.
Lots of these websites that allow you to create your own page(s) on subdomains have quite a few users who only use it to link to themselves or to get that page to rank using link techniques they wouldn’t use on their own domain(s).
If those sites would be penalized for the users it would be a total mess.
Theoretically: if you want to get a site penalized using their subdomain(s), how would you go about making it look as legit as possible?
Hi! My name is Becky… I have been doing ppc marketing for a couple months now with fairly good success, then google slapped me. Anyways, one of my affiliate marketing AIM buddies recently turned me on the SEO and I have been working diligently at it. Looking forward to more posts and tips. My AIM is rebepa3 if any wants to network as well
Thanks for all the great advice, hopefully I have some success.
Becky
Strictly from an SEO perspective tends to rank better than subject.yoursite.com in search engines like Google so before you put a lot of effort into using a subdomain make sure that your project wouldn’t just simply be better put onto its URL where you can grow it without worrying about having to protect your parent domain from spammy activity.
If you place your project on a separate domain you can always link to it from your primary domain without repercussions as you can’t get in trouble for linking to a website as long as the bad website doesn’t have links pointing back to your good domain.
Thank you for explaining the matter of domain and sub domain in such detail.
Joseph Online Payments Dubai UAE, Mobile Payments Dubai UAE United Arab Emirates
Many blog platforms often have a ‘blog of the day’ type section that links back to the subdomains, so even the odd link back to your subdomains shouldn’t do you any harm. It depends how you are using your subdomains really.
Eli, would you say that Google treats Squidoo in the same way? Only instead of subdomains, Squidoo uses the format squidoo.com/pagename.
I remember squidoo pages used to rank well for a lot of keywords, but don’t to the same extent now. Of course the guys at Squidoo are trying to clamp down on spam a lot more now…
Hi Eli!
Thanks for this great article. Now - I have a Question:
Does the Sandbox(Effect) affect “new Subdomains”, too?
Greetings from Poland, Sandra
Hi Eli,
Anothor fab post.
I agree, by knowing what they are lookng for we know what to provide. The hardest point is working out what they are looking for.
The penalties are a real pain. Thanks for the explanation blue hat
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Great info..Thanks for the article!
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This a very interesting topic going on here…Really learning alot from your blog…Hope some more good content like this will come online so we can all grab the most of it…
Thanks for this great job…
Thanks for writing this blog post, it was very helpful, and most importantly - informative!
now its clear to me whats the difference between those 2, (domain and sub-domain)
Very helpful information and evocative. Thanks for sharing.
Regards,
I know a lot of other folks have said this already, but great post man.
Nice work
Hey cool post.
What i don’t link is that the free hosting companies such as wordpress and alike, gain the Page rank from all the sub domains, attributed from all the fine content people submit.
Not enough Bloggers know the value of hosting their content under their own domain!
SEO’s in Sydney need to become aware of this especially.
Wonderful, Eli!
I had no idea we could use subdomains in spam such as this. I’ll definitely have to start using subdomains as my guinea pig when trying out new techniques.
Grey hat SEO is basically just the middle of white and black hat. Spammers use questionable search engine optimization (SEO) techniques to promote their spam. The use of infinite subdomains techniques not only effect branded search results, but also carry over to many other competitive keywords.
Amazing stuff going on that a more complicated but it seems it will take some time to find a proper way to use this stuff together.
“Primary domains can pass a penalty to subdomains.”
I think I’m a living proof this statement is so true.
Hey Eli,
Very informative post. Didn’t know this is how it works in the eyes of G!
Thanks a ton!
~ Lady Killer
Great Choice! Ecommerce Consultant in Southeast Asia Thanks.
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I just found this article. Really good. I never use subdomains on my site. Instead I create a “categories” after my main domain: domain.com/newhomes.
Thanks. I’ve digging through your site and love it.
thanks for information it’s really useful
thanks
I think this is one of the best article written on top level domain and sub domain. It really helpful for those people really working on domains.
Thanks for sharing.
Rare stuff.
Thanks a lot for sharing such valuable piece of information….
Great tips and tricks shared on advance SEO.
Thanks
Maybe you’re right. I will follow your thoughts on twitter.
Thanks, Wei,(FROM Nike Lunar)
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very old article, yet so informative.
SEO Guys should learn things from the past. Search Engine Algorithm are always changing, so keep yourself updated guys
Thanks for the post! Great information!!
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I think it deals with breadcrumbs issues . but originally a sub domain must have relation
Eli,
Your explanation cleared things up for me.
Thanks